ROUGHLY EDITED COPY CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY EDUCATION NETWORK CUENET LUTHERAN CONFESSIONS 2-17 DR. ROBERT KOLB CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY: CAPTION FIRST, INC. P.O. BOX 1024 LOMBARD, IL 60148 800-825-5234 *** THIS TEXT IS BEING PROVIDED IN A ROUGH DRAFT FORMAT. COMMUNICATION ACCESS REALTIME TRANSLATION (CART) IS PROVIDED IN ORDER TO FACILITATE COMMUNICATION ACCESSIBILITY AND MAY NOT BE A TOTALLY VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS. *** LC2-17 >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU TO ADDRESS THE WORDS THE CREED USES TO DESCRIBE CHRIST IN THE SECOND ARTICLE. WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MEANS WHEN THE SECOND ARTICLE REFERS TO CHRIST AS GOD'S ONLY SON? DOESN'T CHRIST FAR MORE FREQUENTLY SPEAK OF HIMSELF AS THE SON OF MAN? HAVE THERE BEEN CONTROVERSIES REGARDING THIS ISSUE IN THE PAST? >>DR. ROBERT KOLB: WELL, SOMETIMES LUTHER IS ACCUSED OF HAVING A KIND OF WEAK VIEW OF THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST AND PUTTING MORE EMPHASIS ON JUST HIS DIVINITY. AND SO IF THAT WERE TRUE, I SUPPOSE YOU WOULD SAY LUTHER WAS VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE WORDING OF THE CREED THAT EMPHASIZES THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD'S SON, THOUGH OBVIOUSLY THE CREED ALSO EMPHASIZES HIS CONCEPTION BY THE HOLY SPIRIT AND HIS BEING BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY. IN FACT, DAVID, WHAT WE SEE IN LUTHER'S ENTIRE THEOLOGY IS A VERY HEALTHY AND VERY CATHOLIC AND VERY BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE TWO NATURES OF JESUS CHRIST IN THE ONE PERSON THAT SIMPLY CAN'T BE SEPARATED INTO -- INTO TWO GODS OR TWO PERSONS THAT OPERATE INDEPENDENTLY OR WHATEVER. LUTHER HAS A -- VERY MUCH A VIEW OF THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST THAT IS ROOTED IN SCRIPTURE. AND REFLECTS THE CONFESSION OF THE EARLY CHURCH. AND SO LUTHER SAYS IN HIS EXPLANATION JESUS IS REALLY TRUE GOD. HE IS THE SON OF GOD. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, HIS OWN CLAIM TO BE SON OF MAN WAS REALLY A CLAIM TO BE TRUE GOD. BECAUSE AS WE KNOW FROM JOHN 1 OR MATTHEW 26, HE REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS SON OF MAN IN THE CONTEXT OF THE PROCESS IN DANIEL 7:13 AND 14 WHERE THE ONE IS LIKE A SON OF MAN COMES TO SIT AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER. THE ANCIENT OF DAYS HAVE ALL OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF YAHWEH HIMSELF. AND SO EVEN THOUGH THE ONE LIKE THE SON OF MAN APPEARS TO BE HUMAN AND IS TRULY HUMAN, WE KNOW, NONETHELESS, THIS IS YAHWEH WHO HAS DOMINION AND POWER AND GLORY AND RULES THE EARTH IN AN EVERLASTING WAY. AT ANY RATE, THE CREED SAYS GOD'S ONLY SON. AND LUTHER SAYS TRUE GOD BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER IN ETERNITY. AND THAT WORD BEGOTTEN IS THE WORD THAT THE APOSTLE JOHN USES TO DESCRIBE THIS SPECIALNESS OF THE SECOND PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY. WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT -- WE SHOULDN'T SPECULATE ON ALL OF THE DETAILS OF WHAT THAT MEANS. BUT LUTHER CONFESSES HE IS TRUE GOD. AND HE IS ALSO TRULY HUMAN BECAUSE HE WAS BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY HAVING BEEN CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND THAT LEADS LUTHER TO SAY THEN "HE IS MY LORD." THERE WERE A COUPLE OF -- THERE WERE MANY ATTEMPTS TO TRY TO EXPLAIN HOW JESUS COULD BE BOTH GOD AND HUMAN BEING IN THE EARLY CHURCH. AND THE EARLY CHURCH REJECTED THE BELIEF THAT HE WAS JUST GOD, A DEISTIC VIEW AND NOT REALLY A HUMAN BEING. IT ALSO REJECTED THE VIEWS THAT MADE HIM A SUB DEITY LIKE THE VIEW OF ARIUS. AND IT REJECTED THE VIEW THAT HE WAS ONLY A VERY GOOD MAN WHO WAS ADOPTED TO BE A SPECIAL CHILD OF GOD. IN THE FIFTH CENTURY PARTICULARLY, THEN THE DEBATES MOVED ON FROM THE CONFESSION THAT HE WAS TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN TO THE DEBATE ABOUT HOW THE TWO NATURES RELATED TO EACH OTHER. AND THERE WERE SOME WHO SAID -- THEY WERE CALLED NOSTORIANS AFTER THE TEACHER NOSTORIOUS (PHONETIC) THAT THE TWO NATURES RELATE KIND OF LIKE TWO BOARDS THAT ARE LAID ALONGSIDE EACH OTHER BUT DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. THEY WORK TOGETHER BUT THEY ARE REALLY BOTH SEPARABLE AND DISTINCT. THE REACTION TO THAT, A MAN NAMED UKESE AND OTHER SO-CALLED MONOPHYSCISTS SAID THAT INDEED THE DIVINE NATURE AND HUMAN NATURE CAME TOGETHER. BUT THAT THE DIVINE NATURE JUST SWALLOWED UP THE HUMAN NATURE SO THAT THERE IS NOW ONLY MONOPHYSCISTS, ONLY ONE NATURE. AND THAT JESUS CHRIST AS HE CONTINUES TO EXIST IS TRUE GOD WITH THE HUMAN NATURE HAVING BEEN SIMPLY SWALLOWED UP. WHAT THE COUNCIL OF CONDONS (PHONETIC) SAID AND WHAT LUTHER TAUGHT WAS THAT THE TWO NATURES COME TOGETHER IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY ARE INSEPARABLE. BUT THEY ARE DISTINCT. YOU CAN STILL TELL WHICH IS MY LEFT AND WHICH IS MY RIGHT HAND. LUTHER PARTICULARLY EMPHASIZED THAT THEY SHARE CHARACTERISTICS. THE TECHNICAL TERM WE USE FOR THAT IS THE COMMUNICATION OF ATTRIBUTES. BUT IF MY LEFT HAND, FOR INSTANCE, WERE TOTALLY WEAK, PARALYZED, BUT CAME TOGETHER IN A HYPOSTATIC OR PERSONAL UNION AS WE CALL THE COMING TOGETHER OF THE TWO NATURES, THEN IF I HIT YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH MY DOUBLE FIST HERE, THE SHARING OF CHARACTERISTICS WOULD NOT LEAD YOU TO SAY "I GOT HIT BY ONE STRONG ARM AND ONE WEAK ARM." YOU SIMPLY WERE HIT BY MY FIST. SO LUTHER EMPHASIZED THAT IN THE SHARING OF CHARACTERISTICS, TRUE MAN, TRUE GOD, COME TOGETHER IN AN UNACCEPTABLE HYPOSTATIC, THAT MEANS PERSONAL, UNION. AND THAT MEANS THAT ALL THAT WE EXPERIENCE OF THE INCARNATE SON OF GOD WHO IS SON OF MAN, ALL THAT WE EXPERIENCE COMES FROM BOTH NATURES. EVEN THOUGH THE DIVINE NATURE NEVER BECOMES HUMAN IN ANY WAY. THE HUMAN NATURE NEVER BECOMES DIVINE IN ANY WAY. THEY ARE ALWAYS DISTINCT. YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL THEM APART. BUT THEY ARE INSEPARABLE AND THEREFORE, THEY SHARE THEIR CHARACTERISTICS. AND THAT ENABLES LUTHER THEN TO TALK QUITE FREELY OF GOD COMING INTO HUMAN FLESH TO DIE FOR US AND OF THE HUMAN JESUS SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD IN POWER, REACHING OUT TO US AND EMBRACING US AS A FELLOW HUMAN BEING. AND ALL OF THAT GOES TOGETHER INTO THE BASIS FOR LUTHER'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE ACTIONS OF GOD IN CHRIST AS HE ACTS OUT WHAT IT MEANS THAT HE IS OUR LORD. *** THIS TEXT IS BEING PROVIDED IN A ROUGH DRAFT FORMAT. COMMUNICATION ACCESS REALTIME TRANSLATION (CART) IS PROVIDED IN ORDER TO FACILITATE COMMUNICATION ACCESSIBILITY AND MAY NOT BE A TOTALLY VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS. ***