"PASTORAL THEOLOGY & PRACTICE" PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL & DR. RICHARD WARNECK CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY: CAPTION FIRST, INC. P.O. BOX 1924 Lombard, IL 60148 1-800-825-7234 * * * * * This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in Order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings * * * * *. >> ERIC: How does the pastor counsel a couple who are together in a trouble marriage? Nick already asked about abusive situations, so I do not mean to refer to such extreme cases. But what about marriages that are troubled because of money issues or persistent arguments? What about those couples who struggle to show affection to one another? What do we say one adultery enters the picture? >> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Well, Eric, the pastor's ears are beset�with troubles and difficulties that people have living together in their Christian home. It's of those things that I think your question speaks. And of course you're raising the real biggie when a wife, for instance, discovers that her husband has been maybe sleeping around or he is having an affair with a woman either at work or on the road in traveling or whatever it is. Of course that's the biggie, the unfaithfulness issue. We have in an earlier discussion addressed that briefly but let's just pursue that a little bit in maybe some down-to-earth practical details. I mentioned a lady who's been offended by an unfaithful husband. Let's say he has been traveling and he comes home after 10 days, two weeks on the road and she discovers in his clothing some evidence that he's been fraternizing with some other women. It turns out that one night after work and meetings he was out in a restaurant or a pub�or a bar and he meets this gal and in a moment of weakness he goes along with her and first thing you know, he's into big trouble and which she, the wife now discovers and comes upon. Now, should this lady just come to the pastor and say "my husband's been unfaithful to me and I want to get a divorce and I don't want to hear any static from the church or from the pastor because I know from my teaching and confirmation class I have the right to get a divorce from this man." And the pastor senses this lady is very upset. Of course, she's very much offended. The pastor works with that thing kind of gently. Perhaps he tries to help the lady to back off a little bit and back away from the immediate issue and to just think a little bit about the marriage and the bigger picture. "well, you know you've been married for 13 years, and you've got a couple of fine children. There are some really fine things that have been happening in your marriage." And she acknowledges that and she's really trying to say those things are true and, pastor, I am really just angry and I really am." And the pastor tries to help her with her disappointment and her anger over her husband. So, in counselling with her gently and pastorally, he kind of moves her around to those great words in Ephesians 4 versus 32 where the apostle urges us to be kind to one another, patient with one another, forbearing. And then you have the word in that beautiful passage: Forgiving. And he buys some time with this lady, gives her some things to think about. And perhaps as she avails herself of the grace of God as he can point her to her own use of the sacrament and her hearing of the Gospel of God's love and his boundless grace and mercy to her and to all of us in our Lord Jesus Christ crucified, risen Lord, that when some of this begins to work in her heart, perhaps she will have a different view of things and be ready to talk about it in a little different frame of mind. So pastor's leading her in that direction. Let's say that this all happens. Maybe a week later, she comes back and has a discussion with the pastor. Then the pastor might suggest to her, "look, your husband really was a louse and I'm sure, knowing him, he recognizes that." and she acknowledges that he has made some overtures of repentance. He certainly isn't indifferent to this thing that he did. In fact, he's pretty broken up about it. Okay. Maybe, my friend, that's an open door, the pastor says. If you can bring yourself to forgive your husband of this terrible thing he did against you and your marriage and the two of you can come together again under Christ, the Lord Jesus will bind those wounds and bring you together again and perhaps your marriage can stay intact, which you realize probably would be the better thing for your children, also for yourselves. And by the grace of God continue your life together. So, we want to work in that direction. I think very ill advised have been that pastor�-- and, frankly, generation or so ago, our pastoral practice, as I had indicated in an earlier discussion, might have been much more accommodational when this lady came in really upset and she presents this terrible thing her husband did and the pastor would simply jump in and would say "well, that husband of yours, he certainly is a bad fellow and you're in your rights to go get a divorce." if he had taken that tact, I think he would have frankly been in error with his pastoral practice. He certainly would not have worked the thing in such a way that the Gospel has an opportunity and the Holy Spirit has an opportunity to heal and to make whole again, something that really ought to stay whole and into the future. Okay? You see the distinction between those two styles? I think that's very important when we're dealing with infidelity, which is the thing that you brought in your question. All right. Now how about some of these lesser things that make it uncomfortable for people to stay in their marriage, little squabbles, behavioral patterns and that sort of thing. We, as pastors, are party to just a lot of negative things. And now and then maybe we just have to be very directive and say to people: Look, folks, why don't you grow up? Now, that may be terribly top down and terribly direct. And a former style of pastoral ministry would object to that kind of direct approach where the pastor kind of lays it on and tries to just help kind of shake people a little bit and bring them to their senses and get them out of these behavior patterns that are becoming destructive. They would say "oh, these people got to go through some really indepth counseling." I think that could be profitable. But the opportunities are not there for everyone. Well, short of that, contemporary therapies are really moving in a different direction. There's been a shift away from the therapeutic to a very proactive approach, focusing principally upon the present situation and the re-learning and the practice of acceptable behavior patterns. This is what I'm really leading around to. This shift from passive introspection about our problems within the psyche to real action in the present�-- why, I'm speaking, for instance, about William Glasser's reality therapy that dates several decades ago already but has been advanced and refined by marital counselling disciplines such as that of Michelle Weiner Davis, whose works have proven extremely helpful "Divorce Busting," "Remedy for Divorce" are two of her titles. And Davis' work is very usable by the pastor as counselor, a pastor who may not be trained in all of the intricacies of indepth therapy, but he can use some of the principles of this proactive approach. Weiner Davis calls her approach "the solution-oriented brief therapy." And her counsel is to find solutions rather than problems. Don't ignore the problems, but let's look for solutions. And her methodology can set the pastor to assist couples who are troubled by just foolish behavior patterns from day-to-day. The suggestion is that even a very slight change in those destructive behavior patterns can effect marvels for the relationship. And it's been proven. It's been demonstrated that this kind of on-surface, present situational therapy is very helpful to people. So, Eric, I would commend to you, together with other mentors and other teachers to become acquainted with some of the basics of this solution brief therapy and employ it when you see your people struggling with things in their marriage that just make things miserable for everybody. All right? The other thing I wanted to say in closing here is that I have a concept of the holy ground. I teach it here in my classes and I share it with you, Eric, and others that sometimes we've got to move people back to where they started, to that holy ground, before the altar, two people convinced the Lord has been leading them to each other, giving the young lady to the man as his wife, giving the young man to the lady as her husband and the Lord blessing that and sending them on their way to live under his Word, to commune together at His altar, this is holy ground. And the Lord has so much interest in that marriage Himself. Let's get things in order so we don't disappoint Him. It'll make our whole life happier. We could pursue this in much more detail, but I think you get the concept. Help people so fixating upon these little nettling things that are disruptive, move them back to the larger picture and help them rediscover the mystique in their life together, mystery, lovely mystery and God in the whole thing. He in their marriage with them. Help them in that direction and some of these little irritants and irritations will go away. * * * * * This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in Order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings * * * * *.